There are a lot of intelligent people taking part in a very respectful way. I think that’s relatively unique when compared to the overall discussion being had on the web about Primerica.
The article I wrote was specifically about my experience with the SMART loan, and much of the discussion has been true to that topic. However, I also get a fair number of comments and emails about other aspects of the Primerica experience.
The following is an example of the types of emails I will get from time to time:
My name is Megan… and I live in Iowa. I am considering joining Primerica, as I just attended a meeting last night, and am interested in helping people get out of debt, beings I have seen my sister struggle with it for the last 15 years, and I myself, have become her “bank,” I was wondering if you could give me any advice as to what I should do, what I should be skeptical of, and if you could recommend what their actual theory is!? I have been reading blogs, pros, cons, etc. . . for the last 3 hours online, and I am getting mixed emotions about it. My main concern is that I will not be able to make the “dreams” of the families I visit come true, and in some way, will be doing people a disservice, RATHER than a SERVICE!
Megan,
The problem here is that I’m far from qualified to answer this type of question. So to that end, I’ve recruited a couple of highly intelligent financial experts to help answer just this question. Both of these people have had direct and substantial experience with the Primerica opportunity.
One of the things I pride myself on is a fair and respectful look at all angles of a discussion. So the articles posted here tell both sides of the story. If you have anything to add to this discussion, please do so in the comment section below. But remember–this blog is about finding the truth. If you find yourself becoming emotionally stimulated or defensive, you may want to think twice about commenting.
The following is one of two articles I’ve received from two different contributors–One pro and one con. In order to get a balanced look at the Primerica opportunity, I would highly recommend that you also read this story as well.
So without further ado, I present Ken, and his reply to Megan and all of you out there trying to make the right decision.
Secrets of a Primerica Graduate
By Ken
Megan,
Congratulations on doing some research prior to dropping $99 for the “opportunity of a lifetime”. I wish I could say the same, but \several years back when I was drawn in, it cost me around $200. Although Primerica does offer an opportunity to make big money, the odds of “making it” parallel your local lottery. Even if you did begin to make a lot of money, you’ll have to wonder “at what cost?”
First and foremost, Primerica is a multi-level marketing company. Some would compare it to the old pyramid schemes. The basic gist of any multi-level marketing company is that in order to make serious money, you must “recruit” or bring more people into the company. After careful examination, you’ll notice that recruiting becomes the main focus of the business. The reason for this is because as you recruit more and more people, you get “promoted” to higher levels of commission. This means for everything you sell and everything the people you brought into the organization sell, you make more of a percentage of the profit. The important thing to realize is that although MLMs are not illegal, some would argue that the products are what “validates” or legalizes the business model. If you remove the products, you return to a pyramid scheme.
What does this all mean? Basically, you’re a professional recruiter. Although you’ll learn about some basic financial concepts, you’re a recruiting machine at Primerica and any other MLM company. I’ll address the products later. When you’re a recruiter, your job is to entice as many people to “opportunity meetings” as possible. The opportunity meetings are facilitated by successful individuals. They have convinced a lot of people that Primerica is a great career decision. After you attend enough of these meetings and other trainings, you’ll begin to pick up all of the techniques used by those that are successful.
The techniques for recruiting are time-tested and you may have even heard some of them yourself: “We’re opening some offices in the area and I’m in charge of expansion”. Sometimes they’ll come into your current place of employment and say: “I can’t help but notice how well you took care of me, I think you’d be a perfect fit in our organization”. Sometimes, they’ll just advertise on websites like craigslist, asking you to send them your resume for a job opportunity.
Once contacted by one of these folks, it’s very important to realize that they can be anywhere in their career with Primerica. They could have been there 15 years, or most likely they’re either brand new, or only a few months into the business. They’re not going to get you to the opportunity meeting by telling you they’re brand new, haven’t sold a thing, and really dislike all of the hard work. Instead, they’re “taught” to make it sound great. Everyone’s making a lot of money “helping middle America”. They’ll tell you they’re either doing it full time, or just about ready to make the transition to full time.
Truth be told, most of the people in the office make very little money in respect to how many hours they put in. There are a few superstars that may make a few bucks, but it’s all due to recruiting. They may have known a lot of people, started an office in a newer area, or are a natural at recruiting. The other very important factor to remember is that you’re taught to constantly ask everyone you run into about sitting down with you so you can show them how you can help them financially. Realistically, the sales presentation is a self-guided recruiting presentation. They introduce the company, show the “client” all of the things they can do for middle-America, then the real closing comes in. They ask you for referrals and see if you want to join them on this fabulous crusade.
Who do you talk to? EVERYONE! This includes family, friends, co-workers, etc. After hearing a few success stories at the office, you go on auto-pilot, asking anyone you see: The waitress who serves you at the restaurant, the clerk at the video store, etc. You’ll slowly irritate everyone you know to the point that you’ll be alienated by friends, family and co-workers. You’ll start parroting the same old stuff so often, you’ll actually trick yourself into believing you’re even making money doing it. Them reality sets in and you slowly fade away from Primerica. The timetable varies, but it’s usually the same story.
If this still sounds like the opportunity of a lifetime, let’s talk products. If it’s not an illegal pyramid scheme, there has to be some products involved. Like Amway, Mary Kay Cosmetics and Avon, Primerica has products. The priducts are financial services. They include life insurance, annuities, mutual funds, and mortgages. Whoa…sounds pretty serious. Yes, you’ll need licenses to sell all of those things. If you’re not a good test-taker, stop right here. The most basic license you’ll need is for life insurance. It’s the easiest one to achieve and ironically the one Primerica will make you get in order to start. Once you’re a licensed representative, you can begin selling the opportunity. Less than 25% of Primerica agents are licensed to sell securities. That means that although they “teach” you to invest money for the long term, most agents can’t even help you do it. In fact, it’s illegal for them to even discuss it.
The Primerica mission is to “help people become debt free and financially independent”. How do they make their clients debt free? They have a very basic computer program that teaches the clients elementary debt stacking—a technique that shows the most efficient way to pay down debts. The other way is to do a cash-out refinance on the client’s home. To do this, the client must owe significantly less on their current mortgage than the home is worth. Prior to the recent downturn in home values, this was a lot easier to do. However, adding your credit card debt to your mortgage is hardly “eliminating debt”. Sure, there are some tax advantages to doing it, but it’s certainly not eliminating debt. One further thought…isn’t Citi, the parent company of Primerica, one of the largest players in credit card lending in the nation? Interesting how they want you in debt, then they want you out of debt???
To entice people into entering a mortgage contract with Primerica, they have come up with a pretty tricky way to make the clients believe they’re getting some financial benefit available only with Primerica. The basic concept they try to tell you is that if you pay you mortgage bi-weekly through their “SMART loan”, you’ll have your mortgage paid off sooner than doing it with another lender because of their simple-interest calculation. While this by itself has merit, the problem is that Primerica’s SMART loan comes with costs and rates of interest much higher than regular mortgages to the point that the simple interest feature is a moot point. The next step that the SMART loan takes is advising the client to pay more money per month to get the loan paid off even sooner. Like any loan, this is a true statement.
The bottom line—anything the SMART loan can save the client, the client can do better outside of Primerica. If the SMART loan predicts a loan payoff of 20 years, the client can go right into any bank, like Citibank (a subsidiary of Citigroup, as is Primerica) and ask for a conventional 20-year loan. The conventional 20-year loan will have lower costs and monthly payments than the SMART loan. It’s that simple. The SMART loan does have the upper hand when accelerating payments if it was comparing solely to a 30-year mortgage. However, once the smoke and mirrors is lifted, the math shows that instead of paying all sorts of high fees to Primerica, the client will save more money simply refinancing to a loan of a shorter term at their local bank.
Next on the Primerica financial offerings menu is life insurance. For years and years, Primerica followed the A.L. Williams philosophy of buying term insurance and investing the difference on your own technique. This was an answer to the previous cash value life insurance programs, which were often misrepresented by unscrupulous sales people. Some of these sales people promised huge returns in the cash value portion of the insurance contract. Many times, these forecasts made the owners feel they could stop paying their premiums and inevitably the contract cancelled for non-payment of premium. Although permanent insurance may not be the best choice for some people, it’s hardly the “bad guy” of life insurance that Primerica projects.
The days of misrepresenting these contracts is for the most part over. However, Primerica continues to bash every type of permanent life insurance contract. Instead, they recommend buying their term life insurance (at exorbitantly high premium rates) and investing the difference in premium (when compared to a cash value policy) into mutual funds. The problem here is twofold: First, most Primerica agents aren’t even licensed to talk about, much less offer the mutual funds to their clients. Second, the loads (fees) on the mutual funds that Primerica does offer, makes the fees they bash on cash value policies pale in comparison. So, on one side of their mouth they continually bash what they consider cash value policies laden with high fees, and out the other side of the mouth tell you to buy their term insurance which costs upwards of 50% more than highly ranked competition and invest in their high-cost mutual funds.
The real problem is that the average Primerica agent knows very little about what they’re actually talking about and the average American knows even less! The only training they have is from Primerica, on Primerica products. If someone works at Burger King, they’re not going to know everything about the Big Mac. They might “know” the Whopper is better, but they don’t know why, except that is what they heard at training. The same thing happens at Primerica.
Some would argue that the reason Primerica doesn’t offer any cash value policies is that their sales force would then need to study for and pass the securities exams, which are certainly not easy. Again, revisiting the early concept of “validating” an MLMs existence is the products. If you put one more obstacle (the test) in the way of being able to join Primerica, how much would that cost the company? Instead, they forgo the test and continue to vilify a product they know little about—permanent insurance.
What happens once you join Primerica? Besides the original down payment to become an independent business owner (by the way, you never “own” anything), you’ll be responsible for buying brochures and pay for a monthly on-line service that gives you sales techniques and helps you track your production. Full-time financial professionals don’t pay for these services with their companies. Primerica makes the new agent think they’re business owners so they accept the fact that the agent will foot the bill for these expenses, not the multi-million dollar earning insurance company.
So, Primerica plays a role as the “good guy” in a world of finance where all the banks want you to do is be stuck in debt, right Citi? They do in fact get some people without life insurance the much-needed protection they need for their family. That by itself is great! However, charging the astronomical fees for each and every product they offer, the misleading mortgage product they have, and the fact that the company doesn’t require the agents to get licensed to help people invest is ludicrous. Presenting a very basic Primerica Financial Needs Analysis and comparing it to some well-written, in-depth, client-specific financial plan by a real financial planner is ridiculous. There are several companies that will offer free plans that make Primerica’s FNA look like a joke.
Losing friends and family, offering overpriced, lackluster products, all in the name of making a buck— Is this your idea of “helping people become debt-free and financially independent”? When you look yourself in the mirror, are you comfortable knowing that what you advise people to do can make or break their financial lives? Are you comfortable even telling yourself what to do financially? You certainly aren’t going to learn anything in Primerica that will help you feel like you could. Again, they’re an MLM—a pyramid validated by a product; it’s not a very good product. See you at the “top”.
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108 responses so far ↓
1 Richard // May 8, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Ken huh? You wouldn’t happen to be the Ken that spent 10 - 15 years ruining his career and reputation trying to destroy AL Williams are you?
Anyways, I’m not going to waste time poking holes in your guest article. It is filled with outdated and misinformation.
If you wish to have a truly good/bad side argument about a company, ask someone who is NOT an agent of said company OR a competitor of said company. Better yet, ask the state commissioners, BBB, SEC, FINRA, etc. They have a much more objective POV rather than one that furthers their own career.
Megan, since you have reservations, write down questions you want answered and get them answered by those that have had success, not the person that invited you.
Do not do ANYTHING unless you are comfortable with it. Also remember that you can NOT trust what you read online. Most statements about any company are purely situation and reflect one incident. Companies like Primerica, AIG, OfficeMax, etc have millions of said situations every month. On average, less than 1% are negative. Primerica gets the lime light because of who big it is. PFS recruits and licenses more than any other company in the industry. I might even go as far as to say more than the rest of the industry COMBINED.
Their are about 10 people in my office alone that put in about 20-40 hours a week and make between $100k - $300k annually. Mostly off of personal and residual income. They have all helped MANY families get on the path to achieve their dreams. Whether the client achieves them or not is solely their responsibility. Ours is to provide a plan and guide them.
You can lead a horse to water, but can’t make him drink. Teach them how to manage their finances and offer the products as a solution. Let them decide what they want to do. At the very least, they got the education side of it and are somewhat better off.
As I tell my clients, if you are uncomfortable, we are NOT doing anything until it is resolved. I have denied clients things they need because they were not sure of a few things. Once resolved, they were better for it. Even got put into a few wills because of it.
Bottom line, be honest with yourself. If you don’t believe you can do it. You are right. If you believe you can. You are right.
2 Cody // May 9, 2009 at 6:22 am
So I’ve been following the conversation on and off for a year or so with your original post, and some good points have been discussed over time.
This post however, focuses on the recruiting side of the firm, and I feel I can add some value.
I think the first misconception that needs cleared up is the one that we’re the only financial firm that’s always recruiting. That’s simply not the case!
I can’t tell you how many times in the past five years I’ve gotten letters, phone calls, lunch invitations, etc from recruiters from other firms to come work for them.
By the way, these guys are all paid to recruit, and WE’RE the pyramid scheme, but I digress…
As a young fully licensed person with lots of production, they look at me like a dog looks at a piece of steak. And, ironically, the recruiting efforts always happen right after I replace their business…
So here’s the facts on the PFS Opportunity, then I’ll give some opinion.
For $99, Primerica will pay for every penny of your life licensing process, including a books, a live class, an online class, online and offline study materials, and the test itself. And, if you study online after class, they will pay for your test an unlimited number of times if you fail.
They will then pay for every penny of your securities license, including all the things mentioned above and more.
Your office will then reimburse you the $99 you paid.
You may then stay and work, stay and do nothing, something in between, or leave and go work with a different firm.
That’s it. That’s the process of being recruited by Primerica.
I’m sorry, but I just don’t see the scam here. None of that requires endless recruiting, no pressure, no alienated friends, none of that bullcrap.
You have no investment, the company has thousands invested, and all they have is the hope you’ll stick around and do something.
So as for my opinion, I went to a private college that was $40,000 per year. There were no reimbursements, just a bunch of debt with no guarantees of what it would get me.
We can spend all day long arguing about a $5-$10 per month difference in our term vs other term, but $0 (PFS) vs $250,000 in debt (college) is real and definite.
That being said, is PFS right for everyone? Nope.
Is college right for everyone? Nope.
Was college right for me in particular as an individual? Nope.
I loved my time in school, my fraternity, even my major. I could’ve done what I studied for and been happy in the process. And believe me, I loved what I went to school for, and still practice it for fun.
But like so many have pointed out, when it was all over and I looked back at my life, what would it have meant? Who’s life would I have changed in the process?
That’s what people miss. We can squabble all day about how someone could get marginally cheaper term, or loans or whatever elsewhere.
But the reality is they don’t.
For whatever the reason, ignorance, apathy, or some other one, people just tend to have made really poor financial decisions.
So again, could one of my clients gotten cheaper term online? Or saved .5% on their mortgage somewhere else? Or opened a brokerage account with Scottrade? Sure!
But they didn’t. What they did do is buy a whole life policy, get an adjustable rate loan, and either saved nothing or bought CD’s at the bank.
That’s the reality. Without me, they would still be there, forever.
And for the reps that work full time for me, that can pick their kids up from school, spend time with them, help them with their homework, and then plan work around life, that is priceless.
By the way, what Ken said is vastly incorrect of today’s PFS.
And Chris, for someone that is a client of ours, and that has said time and time again the $MART Loan was great for you, to have someone write a guest post calling it a bunch of smoke ‘n mirrors is just plain silly.
It’s either silly, or even handed. There are lots of people with lots of different experiences–both good and bad. This blog is about helping people see the big picture, and make the right decision for them. As I’m not a rep, I can’t intelligently comment on the big Primerica picture–so I was lucky to find a couple people who can.
Fear not, Cody. I have another guest post ready to be published soon that will balance this out.
Chris
3 Chris Hansen // May 10, 2009 at 2:00 pm
I have to agree with Cody and Richard on this one. Ken’s review is waaay skewed. Kinda like all those people that are all freaked out that the earth is catastrophically warming when in reality the average temperature has gone up .7 degrees in the last 100 years. But that’s another topic
I will go ahead and lay it out there up front that I am affiliated with Primerica and have been for a while. The one thing that this discussion has not pointed out so far is that Primerica is a business opportunity not a job. Expect it to be like a financial services business, not a financial services job. There is a big difference. It is better than a typical financial services business though in that Primerica home office takes care of all the compliance issues plus many more office related burdens of running a business for you This leaves you free to build your business. I have many friends in the financial industry that tell me horror stories of all the money they are required to spend on E&O insurance and contributions to the offices “coffee and water” fund. They have to subscribe to morningstar, pay an office manager, etc. At Primerica, all those things are taken care of for you when you first get started. You just have to market yourself. I have owned businesses in several different industries and the Primerica business model is excellent, but you have to go into it knowing what it is.
4 Cody // May 11, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Thanks for the reply, Chris, and to your credit, this feels like a good forum for open discussion, even if ultimate consensus will never be reached.
What I was pointing out to be silly was the connection you have PFS, mainly the SMART Loan, and his accusations therein of it.
From Ken’s point of view, SMART is the worst thing you can do if you decide to refinance, yet a decision was made after months of research by you that it was in fact the best thing for your family to do.
My point is that something cannot be both the best and the worst thing at the same time!
The majority of remaining points I didn’t discuss also suffer the same fate… They’re all based on information from the early to mid 90’s, best I can tell.
I look forward to the additional discussion and posts, and hopefully we can clear up some of the confusion and bring out the truth.
Cody,
“. . .something cannot be both the best and the worst thing at the same time!”
I love that statement because if you think about it–I mean really think about it–the words drip of wisdom. It may in fact be the very place to begin a discussion like this. I’m a big picture kind of guy. I think there should be some guiding principles that help us make quality decisions. I think we run into problems when we don’t understand (or haven’t clearly identified) those values for ourselves, or when we get confused by details. To date, this discussion has been (at least for me) confusing.
Yet, when considering improvement, relativity is a big deal. What you’re used to matters. Taking incremental steps forward is healthy. Perhaps with Primerica stuff, just as is the case with many things, something can be the best and the worst thing–just not at the same time.
The danger is in judging others based on your perspective. Just as one man’s trash is another man’s treasure, one man’s treasure is another man’s trash. Always has been, and always will be. Perhaps the key to examining these issues here (esp. those trying to make a decision for themselves) is surely to examine the trash or treasure (the item/product/business model) — but not as much as the man.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Cody.
Chris
5 Cody // May 12, 2009 at 6:27 am
Very interesting thoughts, Chris.
You’re right, in most cases, perception is reality, and when it comes to PFS, this can certainly be the case!
I would like to suggest however, that there are two aspects of PFS, and that they need to be looked at differently.
The first are the financial concepts PFS teaches, in my opinion, that is the the objective side of the business. Either what we teach families to do is right or wrong. It simply cannot be both at the same time…
This is where the discussion about PFS becomes very, very interesting. If you Google any financial firm the size of PFS with the words “sucks” appended to it, you’ll find scores of clients complaining about the products and services rendered.
Now these may or may not be legitimate, but the fact is they exist.
If you look at all the bad press online about PFS, virtually all of it revolves around the Opportunity, which is the very subjective side of the Company.
If you look at the big picture in that, I think it paints an interesting picture…
The people that view PFS negatively, who are they? Are they people that paid $99 expecting to get rich overnight? Can there really be that many disgruntled people in a society where people readily carry tens of thousands of dollars on their credit cards? Would they even miss $99?
Are they the subset of the population out there that is generally scared and skeptical of everything? If so, how do they have so much (mis)information?
The only logical conclusion, if there aren’t really any dissatisfied clients present, would be someone that has a financial interest in seeing PFS’ credibility damaged…
That of course, would be agents from competing firms. If there was full disclosure online of who actually contributes to discussions such as this, I feel it would be quite interesting to pull back the mask!
When it comes to PFS and the Internet, that’s the big picture that is often overlooked.
6 TT // May 14, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Ken,
Thanks for your excellent, informative and factual article. As an engineer with a very good analytical mind, I like to see facts and draw my own conclusions.
I would like to see Primerica experts to point out exactly what are wrong with Ken’s article. Attacking “Ken” instead of his well written article is just making well informed readers in believing in him, and dislike the bully people who can not argue with his facts.
If “Ken” has destroyed some dishonest Primerica agents by using facts, then, he was right and did some great services for society ! What’s wrong with that ?
7 Ken // May 14, 2009 at 9:55 pm
All we see here are PFSers claiming I’m wrong with (admittedly so) outdated information. I haven’t been associated with PFS since the late 90’s.
That being said, I’ve seen all of the product/prices that PFS sells to this day. The term is more than “$5-10″ higher than most companies, they still charge 5% loads on their mutual funds, and I’ve seen a recent SMART loan proposal—again the rate is too high for the simple interest concept to beat a conventional loan.
Once again, PFS is a business opportunity. It is an opportunity to earn money by selling products to people. It’s an opportunity to make even more money on those efforts and the efforts of others if you recruit more people. No one is questioning this or its legality. I personally don’t care about its recruiting structure—the “pyramid” thing means nothing, its a non-issue. Other companies will fully-license you as well, without an upfront cash outlay. Hey, some of them even start your salary before you start training. Another non-issue.
However, prior to beginning this business or buying the products, people have the right to know that the company and its products have plenty of flaws.
“Their are about 10 people in my office alone that put in about 20-40 hours a week and make between $100k - $300k annually”
Now really, who are you kidding? Not me!
“PFS recruits and licenses more than any other company in the industry. I might even go as far as to say more than the rest of the industry COMBINED.”
Girl Scouts recruits more people to sell cookies door-to-door than any other company, combined. Does this mean the cookies are good? No the cookies make the cookies good. Does it make them a good value? Of course not, you get 15 cookies (which get smaller and smaller every year) for $4/box??
Instead of throwing out numbers, cite facts. Facts are very important to making a case. I’ve cited my facts, where are yours?
“By the way, what Ken said is vastly incorrect of today’s PFS.”
Again, what is incorrect?
“And Chris, for someone that is a client of ours, and that has said time and time again the $MART Loan was great for you, to have someone write a guest post calling it a bunch of smoke ‘n mirrors is just plain silly.”
Yes, Chris was told by someone looking to make money off the sale that the SMART loan is a great decision. He was CONVINCED of it, as it was presented. When someone that fully understands it explains it to him outside the PFS presentation, it looks less appealing. What’s ironic is that even after proving its bad time and time again, there are still PFSers that think it’s a great loan and probably still present it as the 30 year loan with magical powers. The smoke and mirrors has been cleared for one client, hopefully he’s not the last.
This is what’s disturbing to me. I’ve shown that EVERYTHING about a conventional loan is better than the SMART loan…the costs, the monthly payment, the required duration of the loan, and most importantly how much better the principal comes off on a 20 year loan instead of the 30 turned 22 year SMART loan. This is huge because most people never get to the point of paying the loan off and the conventional loan’s principal balance drops at a much greater rate, saving the client THOUSANDS of dollars.
So, answer me this: If Primerica is about doing what’s right 100% of the time, then:
1) WHY do they charge a higher rate on the mortgage? We all KNOW it makes the loan not worthwhile compared to a conventional, so what’s their reasoning for the high rate?
2) How do you go and sell it to the clients knowing it costs them thousands more than getting a conventional loan?
These are the people you’re “helping” that you’re really HURTING. This is about ethics. Just because your presentation is guided at telling them it’s good, doesn’t mean it’s good and that you should sell it to them. You now KNOW, without any challenge to my assertions, that the SMART loan is WORSE that a conventional. How do you go in and cost your clients THOUSANDS more under the guise of doing what’s right?
“My point is that something cannot be both the best and the worst thing at the same time!”
It wasn’t at the same time. When the salesperson explained it, it was the best. When someone that has no agenda, no personal “advancing of his career”, talks in anonymity about the loan, it is PROVEN to be the WORST thing.
“I look forward to the additional discussion and posts, and hopefully we can clear up some of the confusion and bring out the truth.”
Again, what’s not factual about what I’ve said? Use specifics and cite sources. Otherwise, you’re just another parrot. You can try to poke holes in what I’ve said, but without facts it means nothing.
8 Ken // Jun 10, 2009 at 8:38 pm
What a shocker…27 days pass, no response.
The numbers don’t lie.
9 Aprent // Jun 19, 2009 at 4:45 pm
I think TT is also Ken (in disguise).
10 Ex-Primerican // Jun 20, 2009 at 2:03 am
Another Primerican speaks out. Every time I see a post by Primerica reps it makes me sick to think I was one of them for so long! See I drank that sweet Primerica Kool-aide for so long I couldn’t see the real numbers. You are being brainwashed by your RVP and the idea of making millions of dollars has put your own ethics on the back burner. (I can say this because I was one of the Primerica cult members)
Simply put PFS reps cut the crap and put some real numbers on the table. Show your 3 most recent life cases (Age, Term, Face Amount, Tobacco or Non, and premium.) and show your 3 most recent $mart loans (balance, term, ltv, rate, equity builder payment, any acceleration, and debt free date). Either myself or Ken will be glad to prove how uncompetitive PFS really is. Maybe then you will put down the kool-aide and look at facts not what some educated RVP tells you.
11 Ken // Jun 20, 2009 at 8:31 am
I just sent Chris a whole article on the SMART loan, including screen shots of an ACTUAL SMART loan proposal sheet. I carefully dissected it and compared it to a conventional loan.
If I were Chris, I might not post it. Once the evidence is shown (and it’s irrefutable) this blog may get REALLY quiet. It PROVES the false premises that the SMART loan is sold on. It PROVES that the longer you have the SMART loan, the better off you would’ve been in a conventional loan. The difference is staggering and I look forward to the reaction of the PFS-defenders, if they’re tough enough to stay and debate.
12 Ex-Primerican // Jun 20, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Ken you know better! PFS reps have no need for facts! As long as there are opp meetings, fast start schools, GoSolo, and so on RVPs get to create their own version of reality. When you beat PFS on life they instill fear with war clauses & not paying death claims. When it comes to $mart, they shroud it in mystery & smoke and mirrors to convince clients to pay insanely high rates, huge closing costs, & prepayment penalties!
To quote one of the millionaires in Primerica, “The easiest sale is on a recruit! So to make more money hire more people”… I would love to see the article Ken!
13 Ken // Jun 21, 2009 at 9:13 am
It’s unverified, but rumor has it they did away with the pre-payment penalty.
Who needs a pre-payment penalty when the non-recurring closing costs on a 200,000 loan are $5600?
Yes, nearly 3% of the loan amount and there’s no escrows in that figure. Sounds like a bargain for a high-interest loan.
The more I think about it, the more I think the SMART loan violates predatory lending rules. Once the article is posted, it’s quite obvious Citi could offer the same client a loan with lower closing costs and a lower rate/monthly payment than the SMART loan. Since there is no benefit to the SMART loan at ANY point, I’d be willing to bet a case could be brought forth that Citi violates the law and is discriminating against the financially unsavvy.
14 Ex-Primerican // Jun 24, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Here is a confirmation about the $MART loan prepayment penalty.
Effective June 6th, 2009 there is no longer a prepayment penalty on the $mart loan.
This was confirmed by a friend who is currently a RVP. Also current $MART loan rates are as follows: (80-90% LTV)
A++ 6.92%
A 7.22%
B 8.96%
C 9.45%
Primerica reps are not told what FICO score get their clients in this rankings, but you can see that $MART rates are ridiculously high! Par 20yr rates on a conventional loan is around 5.25 - 5.375%.
15 Ken // Jun 25, 2009 at 7:43 am
To think that in the article I wrote, the spread between the conventional and the SMART was only around 1.125%… I can only imagine how much worse off the client would be if they qualified for 6.92% with A++ credit and having around a 1.6% spread. My biggest fear is their rate for ‘C’ credit where the spread would be 4%???
But rate doesn’t matter. LOL
16 Ex-Primerican // Jun 25, 2009 at 6:58 pm
To quote the $MART solution center trainers:
“It’s not the rate, but the rate in which you pay”
I hope that this blog eventually helps some PFS reps open their eyes are not lie to their clients!
I had lunch with my friend who is a RVP today and he said Primerica’s newest program Debtwatchers is being released soon. Very little is known about the product, but according to him it is product where Primerica shows them their credit score then helps the client establish a program to become debt free. Cost is unknown at this time, but there will definitely be a one-time or monthly charge to be part of Debtwatchers!
What happened to the debt stacking in the FNA? Huh? When times are lean lets create a product so we can sell to our sales force. Sounds like a great plan!
- Story developing! LOL
17 Ken // Jun 25, 2009 at 7:49 pm
Yep, I’ve heard about that new product being rolled in soon. They’re teaming with Equifax. It’ll be a web-based program that’ll show them how to optimally pay off their debt to increase their credit score.
I wonder how much a program will cost that will tell you to pay down each card below 20-30% of your credit line. Great point, the FNA debt-stacker used to be good, but it was free. No way to get residuals and overrides with something free. LOL
Funny thing is, because of all of the recent turmoil in the credit industry, they are going to HAVE to overhaul the credit reporting industry. The big “secret” is going to be out. After all, how fair is it that people have no idea how their credit works when it directly relates to future loans/mortgages they take out? It’s awfully discriminatory if you ask me.
18 Ex-Primerican // Jul 1, 2009 at 6:37 pm
I just got an update on the Primerica Debtwatchers program.
The cost will be $25 per month.
What do you get for $25 a month? Primerica will pull your credit for you, establish a plan to help improve your credit score, and then come up with a program to pay off your debts faster.
I have no idea if the FNA will continue to offer the debt stacking program, but I doubt it since they need to make money on the new program.
Even if no clients actually enroll in the Debtwatchers program the company will make a ton of money. Every Primerica rep will be pushed into signing up for this program by their RVP to go along with the $20 for full service GoSolo, $25 Pol, and $25 PLPP (Prepaid Legal), Primerica Life, Primerica Shareholder Services (Investment), and $mart loan (if you are a home owner).
Now you can see why recruits are so important to Primerica RVPs. Hiring a new recruit generates some nice sales & then you get to see their family & friends!
19 Ex-Primerican // Jul 7, 2009 at 3:10 pm
I just wanted to follow up to my last post. Every time I look back on my time with Primerica I am embarrassed by my ignorance and blind faith I had in my RVP and NSD when I got promoted to RVP. I hope that if someone is considering Primerica they go into “the business” knowing the facts and not the diluted truth sold to them by their RVP and opp meetings.
Okay enough rambling. I had an old high school friend contact me on facebook and through our conversation Primerica came up. We laughed about the ridiculous products, but he brought up something that I did not even know. When you join Primerica you are going to be pushed into getting full service Gosolo (not the web version you get with your monthly $25 for POL). The cost of full service Gosolo is $17.95 (this can be verified at http://www.primerica.gosolo.com), but if you go directly to http://www.gosolo.com you will see that the cost is $14.95. Granted we are not talking about alot of money, but if you figure Primerica is making $3 per agent off Gosolo and 50,000 agents subscribe to Gosolo that is an additional profit of $1.8 million per year! Not a bad gig, huh?
Also he told me about a fantastic movie that was released about multi-level-marketing. It is called Believe and it is based on the writers experience with MLM companies. For those of us who have been apart of these types of mlm companies I promise you will laugh! Last night my wife told me it sounded like our old Primerica Opp meeting and Saturday trainings. Just check out the trailers… very funny!
http://www.believethemovie.com/
Enjoy
20 JC // Jul 12, 2009 at 12:55 am
impressive !
im glad i found this.
i was about to concidering the smartloan as a solution…( even thou my loan company has the option to make a payment every bi-weekly )
with the smart loan i would get worse deal.
currently i have a 6% interest on a 30 yr fixed.
but my credit score is trash now..( maybe hitting 500’s ), theres no way i would get a better deal like 6% i already have…
the only thing im concidering is the life insurance. currently i have my policy with forester’s..but other than big numbers, i dont know exactly what to look for on primerica.
Does somebody can explain some pointers what to look for ? is primerica life insurance a steady company? what should i compare between policies other that monthly payment and insurance $ ?
thanks
JC
21 Antonio // Jul 12, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Ok well i just figured out that both my post have not posted
22 Antonio // Jul 12, 2009 at 3:55 pm
JC, I will post in two paragraphs at a time it is the only way the post will show.
Lets Begin
23 Antonio // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:15 am
Hi JC, First I’d like to say that I find Primerica’s ways quiet interesting. Especially the part about most of them being partimers, and marketing to new “professionals as an opportunity to work part time make some extra cash and help people in the process. I find that so insulting to the people who trust them.
24 Antonio // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:17 am
For what it’s worth some background about myself I triple majored in college in Finance, Economics and Entrepreneurship. I’m working on my JD in contract law and estate planning and my MBA in Finance. It is SUPER illegal for a Primerica agent to speak to anyone about mutual funds, investments, etc without the proper licenses.
25 Steve // Jul 18, 2009 at 12:36 am
I just signed u to be a rep the other day. Apparently I made a mistake????? I don’t know too much about money and how it all exactly works, nor do I pretend to. I’m a 26 year old single guy so u can imagine. I’m going to ask them about what you guys are saying tho. “What makes the SMART loan better than a conventional loan that someone can easily get with good credit at a Chase bank, National City, Citi etc?”
Problem is, I don’t think I’m supposed to know what the SMART loan is lol so they’re gonna look at me funny. If I try to sell a client this SMART loan, am I not going to be able to show/tell them what the interest rate is on the loan????
Now, I do not own a home, so I have no clue how mortage rates are. I don’t know what the average interest rate on a mortage rate loan is, so I really don’t know how I can compare it to anything.
My thing though about Primerica is, you get what you put into it. Just like in anything in life, PERIOD. I was involved with Amway for almost 2yrs, and absolutely LOVE the busines opp they have. It’s my own fault that I didn’t suceed in the business, no one elses. Since I was introduced to Primerica, I am loking at this as a “second chance” opp.
To Ken, and the Ex Primerica guy…. So let’s say you’re both right. Let me ask you this… What’s better? Someone getting the knowledge that Primerica offers at LEAST! Even if they didn’t accept anything offered. Or someone going about in life, never knowing anything about money, wasting their money in CDs, and staying in debt with no life insurance for their entire lives??? I say the first one is better, but that could just be me. Everything is about mindset. You have to have the mindset that you can suceed before you do.
Let’s agan, say you’re right…. Say I “help” a family pay off their debt quicker, “help” them save years of spending on their house mortage payment, “help” them by setting up a term-lif insurance policy. “help” them by investing money in a mutual fund.
Even IF the “client” can get a better deal somewhere else, you have to agree that what Primerica offers is better than nothing at all.
26 Ken // Jul 18, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Steve,
You’re exactly right about most of what you’re saying. However, let’s get something straight:
Most of what Primerica offers is GARBAGE. If you don’t sell this garbage, you don’t make money. You must be willing to sell garbage and know you’re not “helping” the client as best as possible. It’s like being a firefighter, but only carrying one fire extinguisher with an “A” rating. You may be able to put out small fires burning newspaper, but if you try to extinguish a grease fire with that tool, the damage will spread. Same thing with financial services.
If you had a million dollars to invest in the last few years, would you rather have had it in CDs or lose 40% in the market? Contrary to what PFS wants you to believe, people DO KNOW they can pay their debt off faster. It’s not the magic of the SMART loan paying it faster, it’s that MORE money is being paid every year. Hence, a 20 year loan has a higher payment than a 30 year loam, but LOWER than the SMART loan.
Regarding your question to your upline about the SMART loan…your upline wouldn’t even know what the heck you’re asking them. They are so trained to believe it’s the best thing, they’ll blow it off and probably not even know how to answer your question. Moreover, what in the world makes you think that since you know nothing about mortgages or rates that what you may do for someone TRULY is good for them? Don’t you get it? You know NOTHING about ANY of the lines of business you were just induced to sell. Does that set off any alarms? They’re not going to teach you anything about them other than what’s required to get a license. If you needed a heart surgeon, would you want a part-timer who just became a doctor, or a seasoned veteran who does advanced studying voluntarily to make himself better? This is no different. You were hired because you have a heartbeat and $99, for no other reason.
Remember this…your upline doesn’t make money. Their job is to make it look like they are, otherwise they’ll never recruit/keep recruits and will NEVER have a chance of really making money. The whole thing is a show. No one really makes money. A few of the reps in new areas, that have a bunch of (not so smart) friends are the ones that make money. They look up to them, not realizing they know very little about the products…just how to recruit and make you BELIEVE he knows. Most of what you see is a farce.
So, if your idea of “helping” people is really “sort of helping” them, or possibly “HURTING” them, stick it out. You’ll waste a few weeks/months/years of your life and then come back and tell me I was right.
Why is a term insurance policy what every client needs?
27 Ex-Primerican // Jul 19, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Steve,
Wow, you really are a different breed for Primerica! (And I mean that as a compliment)
I don’t want to repeat everything Ken mentioned, but I will just tell you my issues with Primerica.
- The lack of training is a huge issue - When you actually get into Primerica training you will see exactly what I am talking about. They do very little product training and when they do the training is misleading. Here is an example. Ask your trainer why Genworth, Banner, State Farm, Transamerica, SBLI, ING, (I could go on for a very long time) offer cheaper and better term insurance. You will get one of the following answers.
1. They are going to try to trick you to convert your policy to cash value. (Untrue! You have an option to convert for a certain period of time, but are not forced to)
2. When the term is up you will need to prove insurability. Only Primerica offers a new term with so need to prove insurability! (lies)
3. The cost of the premiums are insanely high after the term. Just look in the policy. (Of course look at a Primerica policy at the end of the term… Oppps I they forgot to mention that)
4. They will spew some War Clause BS, or they don’t pay death claims, or other lies like that!
See my problem with Primerica is the brainwashing they do to their reps. (I can saw that because I was brainwashed) The RVP takes advantage of us, our family, and our friends. We sell/buy crappy Primerica products all the time telling people they are the best.
28 Ex-Primerican // Jul 19, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Look at a typical recruit. (If this hasn’t happened to you it will).
1. You get hired. $99 IBA fee plus $25 per month for POL. (They tell you this covers all of the different licensing fees and it s $2500 value, but get real. Let’s see how many people even get their securities license paid for)
2. Since your building a team you will want full service GoSolo. (Another $20 a month).
3. You need to get your own FNA done. While your at it you need life insurance. (if not you should have a small policy just so you can show/tell people you believe in the product. $20 month (cheapest). Now you need an IRA ($25 minimum mo PAC). Pre-paid legal is only $25 per month. And the new debt watcher is a steal at $25 per month. So even if you don’t own a house your trainers (sooner or later) will get you to spend atleast $95 more per month so you can “get on track” with your FNA.
4. Top 25 name list. - We will build a team for you & train you. (Translation sell to your family & friends and not pay you for it)
29 Ex-Primerican // Jul 19, 2009 at 7:25 pm
test
30 Ex-Primerican // Jul 19, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Chris for whatever reason I can not post the last couple points. I will try again tomorrow. Thanks!
Yeah, I’m really sorry about that. I’m still working on my upgrades. Things seem to be working a tad better lately, but still big problems. Quite frankly, I’m surprised you guys are sticking with me through this. It’s taking forever. –Chris
31 Ken // Jul 20, 2009 at 8:26 am
Chris,
We stick through it because of our passion to help people! We “do what’s right, 100% of the time”, and mean it.
32 TheyTryToRecruitME // Jul 20, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Thank you guys
33 Clint // Jul 21, 2009 at 8:47 am
Ken I hope you read this because I am dealing with Primerica right now. I haven’t done anything with them yet. I have felt uneasy about it the entire time and that has nothing to do with the very nice lady that is bringing it to me. Here is a junk email that I will check for a while for your response. willfarley01@yahoo.com
I would love to see your findings as it is hard to find the truth sometimes when they work so hard to keep it off the net.
34 Ken // Jul 22, 2009 at 8:29 am
What are you looking for?
35 Clint // Jul 24, 2009 at 9:51 am
You said this, “I just sent Chris a whole article on the SMART loan, including screen shots of an ACTUAL SMART loan proposal sheet. I carefully dissected it and compared it to a conventional loan. ” I also wanted this information as I am having a meeting with them this coming Tuesday. Once again please send it to my email at willfarley01@yahoo.com
36 Beth Ann // Jul 24, 2009 at 4:52 pm
If Primerica was so bad… why do they have such good ratings with the BBB, SEC, FINRA, etc…????
I could sit here and defend. But I will just say, when people have a grudge with a company they will say many things. I am not happy with Wal Mart with service i recieved, so should I start a “bash Walmart” site??? No see cuz I am a grown up and go to grown up sources to find my information. I am not a PFS rep. Just so you dont think that. But i have seen what they do for families and in these times what they do is wonderful. So grow up and get on with life.
37 Ken // Jul 25, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Beth says:
“I am not a PFS rep. Just so you dont think that.”
and in the same post says:
“If Primerica was so bad… why do they have such good ratings with the BBB, SEC, FINRA, etc…????”
What exactly are their ratings with SEC and FINRA? Wasn’t aware that they were ratings organizations.
&
“I could sit here and defend.”
Why would you want to defend them?
“But I will just say, when people have a grudge with a company they will say many things. I am not happy with Wal Mart with service i recieved, so should I start a “bash Walmart” site???”
No, there’s plenty of them out there…
Walmartsucks.org
walmart-really-sucks.com
just to name a couple
&
“But i have seen what they do for families and in these times what they do is wonderful.”
Where have you seen this if you’re not a rep?
&
“So grow up and get on with life.”
We’ll grow up when you stop spreading deceitful information about your competition and can PROVE that one thing we say is false.
I am getting on with life. I’ll do whatever I can to make people aware of what a sham Primerica is so they don’t waste the same time/money that I did.
Go on now, surely you have someone to recruit to grow your “business”
&
38 Ex-Primerican // Jul 25, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Beth Ann,
If you have not been a part of Primerica you have very little knowledge to determine if their products are the best for the client. While Ken & I have been on the other side. We have worked with Primerica and sold these products to our family, friends, and clients. At one time we were brainwashed and believed they were the best option, but once we learned the truth we left. Why do we post on here? Simple so we can make up for those hundreds (or in my case thousands) of clients who we sold a mediocre product because I told them it was the best.
I will stop posting when Primerica reps stop lying to people. Simple.
Also I am still waiting for a PFS rep to give me real life & mortgage numbers for a comparison. Of course facts are like kyrptonite to Primericans, so it is easier to use propaganda saying I’m a whining agent or a looser agent who used to work with Primerica. (Needless to say I was a top income earner in my state with Primerica for over a decade)
39 Ex-Primerican // Jul 30, 2009 at 5:13 pm
I thought I would share the mentality of reps, in my case a SVP, who works with Primerica. I replaced a Primerica policy last month and we had an agent confrontation last night. Here are the specs:
PFS Policy 20yr term (takes out 6 months ag) $340k on husband and $260k on wife. Monthly cost approx. $113. New policy 20yr term $500k on each total monthly premium $88. So a lot more coverage for $25 less per month.
During the confrontation the SVP pleaded with the clients that I was a disgruntle ex-rep & that when the time comes only Primerica has a proven history to pay the claim. Also he tried the lie about the terrorist attacks during 9-11 and only Primerica paid claims. Then he went into terminal illness lies and even forced conversion to a permanent policy. We stuck the the facts and of course destroyed him with the truth! This client referred over 20 people to this SVP and we now have appointments with everyone of those clients who bought Primerica policies. It’s amazing when your clients learn the truth and realize that even the SVPs have very little knowledge of real world finance products.
Yep I’m a disgruntle ex-rep that has learned the truth and will consider to truly educate my clients!
I thought I would share. Again I have never met a Primerica client I can not beat everything they have. Life Insurance, Mortgages, and investments! I love it!
40 Dustin // Aug 1, 2009 at 1:26 pm
First off I want to thank Chris for allowing us to have this discussion. I welcome all pros and cons of primerica. We could debate this till the end of time. Facts are Ken and Ex-primerican have never came forth and said what organization they work for. I think it is easier to bash another company all day like these two do when they don’t have to say well I work for NY life or a company like this. You can say all day how Primerica has the highest Life rates in the industry, but we all know that just isnt the truth. I am not saying we have the lowest either, but we are competitive. Before I was introduced to Primerica I had a United American Policy paying $55 a month for $100000 of coverage on my wife and I. I now have $400000 on my self and $200000 on my wife and I pay $58 a month. So I got a better rate with Primerica. But am I here all day long bashing United American? No I just found a better deal. You guys crack me up. Really I would hope most people have a life and dont have to sit here and dispute every rebuttal. Come on. Really?
41 Ken // Aug 1, 2009 at 10:28 pm
We don’t work for Primerica, the focus of this blog. Who we work for doesn’t have anything to do with the facts that we present here.
My purpose isn’t to promote myself or my company. That would show a biased approach to my commentary. PFSers would just say I’m trying to get business on here if I talked about myself or my company.
42 Ex-Primerican // Aug 2, 2009 at 10:58 am
Dustin,
You totally miss the point. I have been where you are with Primerica and I have made it to the point you are hoping to get with Primerica. I know what’s like to be part of the Primerica team and I know what it is like to wear the Primerica jersey. I loved the company & if things would have played out differently I would be on this site arguing with Ken with you! Luckily for me I saw the darkside of Primerica (something you will see one day) when I started dealing with a corrupt & racist NSD. When I asked the home office for help they refused. Then a friend showed me the truth about Primerica. I was embarrassed and angry because I truly believed I was doing the right thing 100% of the time. What a joke!
43 Ex-Primerican // Aug 2, 2009 at 10:59 am
If you are happy with Primerica, great! If you want to spend the rest of your life there, great! What makes me sick is how Primerica reps are trained to “disturb & excite”! The mislead clients with talk about not paying claims, forced conversion, war clause, no guarantee reinsurabilty, etc. They lie about the $mart loan, EVERYTIME!
I could go on, but the truth is when Primerica reps stop believing they are “on a crusade” or a sales force sent by God I will stop posting. Realize you are part of the Amway of finance where everything is expensive and mediocre and you will be fine.
44 Ex-Primerican // Aug 2, 2009 at 10:59 am
Facts & numbers speak for themselves. It’s funny how you Primerica reps can’t brings facts and numbers to the table.
45 Roger R // Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Hmmm, something is missing here. Primericans are bound by confidentiality regulations. Non-Primericans aren’t. I have yet to see specifics on how Primerica has been wrong.
Interesting conversations but I grow weary of both sides when they get emotional. Maybe one day we can have a client face off in public (take the buzz off all the animosity).
46 Ken // Aug 4, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Very simple Roger…
Primerica prides itself on saying they’re the savior of Middle American financial services. Then, they sell some of the most expensive term insurance available, an extraordinarily deceitful loan program and 5% loaded, under-performing funds. No one can dispute this. There is no confidentiality issue.
47 Ex-Primerican // Aug 5, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Roger,
I represented PFS for a very long time and I can tell you that everything Ken mentioned is very true. There is not a confidentiality issue with Primerica reps, but the fact they do not want to deal with facts. To take it one step further than Ken - when Prmierica reps encounter better products how do they deal with it? Simple they lie about that company and product. Primerica reps truly believe they have the best products even when the facts prove different. The clients are the ones that pay for this ignorance.
48 Mike // Aug 9, 2009 at 10:46 am
I just recently signed a 15yr SMART Loan that saved me approx. $500/month. I am using $300+/month of that to pay additional principal, bought a $50/mo Life Insurance policy which I never had before and putting the additional $150/mo in a ROTH IRA.
Maybe it’s not the best deal on the planet, but I’M MUCH BETTER OFF. So where’s the harm? Sure there’s probably a better deal out there somewhere, but BOTTOM LINE, I got needed help with my financial situation.
49 Ken // Aug 10, 2009 at 9:04 am
Mike,
I’m calling shenanigans! Please detail what your “before the Smart loan” loan amount, interest rate and term of the loan was that enabled you to save $500/month with a 15 year SMART loan. This is laughable. Another Primerican making things up and getting caught!
If you’re creative enough to prove me wrong with the above challenge, then please tell us your new:
-Loan amount
-bi-weekly payment with the added principal
-projected payoff date
I’m willing to NEVER post here again if he can PROVE what he’s saying is true and that I couldn’t find him a MUCH BETTER solution. I won’t be holding my breath.
50 GuyWhoCantDecide // Aug 10, 2009 at 9:48 am
I recently had and interview with a rep. I also work in retail selling phones. I worked for a company for six years before they went bankrupt made good money bt now i am stuck doing a teenagers type job. Iam educated college. But the market is bad for me at least. What can be worst than selling phones? I need some pros and cons i have a family to think of my family. Should i take a chance or stay in a no going anywhere job where you get no respect.
51 Greg Cooper // Aug 11, 2009 at 12:32 am
alright. quite an interesting read. I’m happy to have found a current website/blog with people’s feelings on Primerica.
I definitely see both sides and how people can be pissed off or love it.
52 Ex-Primerican // Aug 11, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Mike,
Congrats on improving your financial situation! If you do not have the desire to find better products then this is a great option for you. My issue is with PFS reps who claim to fight for the middle class selling the clients crap. There is no doubt you could have saved another $100 - $200+ per month on the mortgage, gotten significantly more coverage for $50 a month (or lowered your monthly premium to keep the same coverage) and invested in better preforming & less expensive mutual funds. If you look at these differences over 10 - 30 yrs it will be astronomical!
Primerica is great for people who don’t want to spend a couple minutes doing some basic research and just want to believe their charismatic PFS rep. The difference though will be tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars over the next 10 - 30 yrs. Only you can decide if it is worth your time to make the best decisions for your family. I can say with 100% confidence the client is NEVER better with Primerica! Primerica maybe better than their current situation, but it is never anywhere near the best option for the client.
53 David // Aug 12, 2009 at 12:55 am
If Ken or Ex could contact me at thisisjustaoneoff@gmail.com I would appreciate it. I am an agent with a AAA rated life insurer that is going to be dealing with a large Primerica rally in my area very soon. I could use some one on one advice. Thanks
54 Single Mom // Aug 14, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Look at the success stories. I was helped by Primerica….they aren’t the monsters you are making them out to be?
12 Credit cards, maxed out - all paid in full
Car Loan - Paid in full
Mortgage - still outstanding BUT only debt I have.
Life Insurance death claim: received 7 days after husbands death.
Part - time with Primeria, benefits
Earnings: $1000 - $1500.oo month
Have earned up to $4000 in some months…PART TIME SINGLE MOM
Able to stay at home and raise my 6 yr. old after losing my husband.
Making a Difference:
I always tell my clients “we aren’t the cheapest term insurance out there, but if I could show you better value than what you are paying right now, is there any reason you wouldn’t do business with me?” So you see my clients know they can get Term cheaper somewhere else, but because PRIMERICA came in and EDUCATED FIRST on the differences between policies…they do business with me and say “thank you! If it wasn’t for you…..I would have lost my home, car, etc, and family’s lifestyle would be effected”
Delivered 1st death claim. Doubled the coverage they had with other company for 1/2 the cost. They thought they couldn’t “afford” more insurance because the agent sold them a whole life plan. The coverage I put in place was only 2 months old. ** Made a difference for this family **
So yes..I’m a part-timer, but I have helped over 300 families in my part-time career and these families have MORE protection because I showed up …. regardless of our HIGH RATES! Our HIGHER rates is ALWAYS a lot LOWER than the whole life / universal life rates they are currently paying. And MORE coverage is ALWAYS a lot better for a family should something happen.
So going on about how we have high rates means NOTHING, when you’ve disclosed this to your clients, but they still do business with you because they appreciate what you’ve taught them!
** I appreciated the $100,000.00 death claim over the $0.00 death claim I would have received if PRIMERICA never showed up on my doorstep years ago. **
55 Ken // Aug 14, 2009 at 9:53 pm
No one said there aren’t “some” success stories. It’s great to hear about some of the positive stories.
That being said, would the client you delivered the death check to have been in a better position with nearly twice the coverage? You have no problem pointing that out when comparing it to a whole life plan. Why is it a bad thing to compare it to another term policy?
The main thing Primericans fail to realize is that although the premium is a lot higher, a whole life policy will ALWAYS be there. You happened to insure one of the 2% of term policies that ever need to be paid out. What about the other 98% of policies you so gleefully replace that will have no insurance later in life when they’ll most likely need to use it? This isn’t about a VUL vs. BTID, it’s about having a guaranteed level premium for LIFE. If an unscrupulous agent sells all permanent coverage at the expense of fully insuring the same individual with enough term coverage, then shame on them! However, the same shame lies with most any Primerica policy. To act like WL policies are satanic
and then peddle inferior term products at nearly twice the price is a tad bit hypocritical.
You could be doing the same thing with other companies, offering much better products at much lower prices. There are plenty of carriers where you can work your own hours.
I’m not knocking what you’re doing, just pointing out that you could do your clients better. You now have the knowledge that the SMART loan is a scam, the insurance is completely overpriced, and one day when you become securities licensed, you’ll figure out that the investment choices are horrendous as well. What you choose to do with this knowledge is your choice.
56 Single Mom // Aug 15, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Ken,
I don’t know what to say to you? I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion right or wrong, informed or misinformed. The sad part is some people will miss a REAL opportunity because they choose to read, and listen to what’s on the internet WITHOUT doing research themselves. In short….”They will let the opinion of others become their reality”….
There’s so many comments you have made that are not true, but I would rather spend my time, doing what I do best…and that’s helping other families understand the differences between insurance policies, and allowing them to make the choice themselves.
All I can do is share my story with others, and help them with their Life Insurance choices, and their investment choices. Recruiting them into the business is not a bad thing, it’s the best part! Because we will have more agents helping families!
57 Ken // Aug 18, 2009 at 11:27 pm
“There’s so many comments you have made that are not true, but I would rather spend my time, doing what I do best…and that’s helping other families understand the differences between insurance policies, and allowing them to make the choice themselves.”
Ok, I invite you PROVE one thing I said is NOT TRUE. You can be just like every other Primerican and make ACCUSATIONS (which they’re professionals at), or you can spend time legitimizing your comments.
This will be just another post that never gets answered. The current/future readers of this blog will not be surprised, it’s just one of many.
58 Ex-Primerican // Aug 19, 2009 at 1:31 am
Single Mom,
Like you I believe in BTID, but I do see times when permanent insurance makes sense. I won’t beat a dead horse, but I was just like you and loved Primerica. I was the person who ran all of the opp meetings, held conference calls, spoke at conventions, won every trip, and so on. I just want you to know I’m not some flake who doesn’t have a clue.
The truth is the Primerica you love isn’t even close to being the company you think it is. The company isn’t about doing the best for the client or for the agents! Primerica products are some of the worse in the industry and the pay is the same. Just look around. You can do a better job for your clients & make more money for your family & most importantly own your business immediately! I spent over 12 yrs with the company and I learned the hard way, Primerica is NEVER the best option for families.
59 Ex-Primerican // Aug 19, 2009 at 1:41 am
Something I never wanted my baseshop to know was the facts about how poor Primerica products really were compared to the rest of the industry. The way RVPs do that is to compare term to cash value & $mart to a 30yr loan. Trust me Primerica does not want their reps to know the truth.
Every product I provide my clients with is better than Primerica. I have replaced 100% of every Primerica policy I have ever seen. I have ownership immediately. I can build my own team. I make more money than RVPs make in Primerica. I get “real” training. I am finally shaking the MLM guy vibe I had for so long. Trust me your family & friends are sick of hearing about meetings & FNAs!
60 Ex-Primerican // Aug 19, 2009 at 1:50 am
Oh yea… Before you jump on me about the Millionaires in Primerica with 1000 RVPs making $100k a year I will correct myself. I make more than the average RVP which in Primerica. I used to train my baseshop when they ran into people like me (now), that I was just a whiner or an angry agent who was getting their policies replaced by Primerica. Also I would sell them on the idea of becoming the next Chris Koob, Jim Meyer, or Hector LaMarque. Something you may not know most RVPs (even ring wears) do not own their solution number. Scary huh?
61 Igotrecruited // Aug 20, 2009 at 5:47 pm
To Ken and Ex-Primerican- Thank you for your wonderful insight into exposing the truth about this ghastly company. I was “recruited,” filled out the forms, and was somehow talked into paying the $99, however you have saved me a great deal of time and MONEY as I will now be on a realistic path in my financial future.
62 Ken // Aug 21, 2009 at 8:56 am
Looks like single mom has no response to either of us. This is no shock to me as I predicted it.
63 Single Mom // Aug 21, 2009 at 7:11 pm
“Something you may not know most RVPs (even ring wearers) do not won their solution number, scary huh?”
You see it’s when individuals “throw” comments like that out, but don’t explain that there are also “guidelines” to owning your code number, give the impression that “everyone thinks” they will own their own business right away.
I am fully aware that you don’t own your code until you meet the qualifications which I explain all the time. People reading this blog, would think “wow….what a scam”!
Anyways, this is the last comment I will be making on this. Gentlemen, have a wonderful day!
64 Ex-Primerican // Aug 22, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Of course this is your last comment Single Mom. You come on here are spew a few misleading comments and they leave. Typical Primerica rep attitude. No facts are EVERY presented!
As for my quote about owning your own “business” or solution number I do not no the exact number facts so I could not comment of exact figures. I do know that I was part of a RVP regional meeting in 2004 or 2005 where less than 1/4 of the room actually owned their code numbers! (I was one of them who didn’t own my code number) So I would guess there were 500 - 600 RVPs there and only approximately 125 people actually owned their code numbers.
Primerica Reps love to talk about “owning my own business” and even the opp meetings sell this. That is an absolute lie!
You have a wonderful day and keep taking advantage of your family & friends! If you lie to enough reps & clients someday you can earn that $100k ring!
65 Ex-Primerican // Aug 22, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Chrs - Sorry to be so rude in my previous comment, but I just will never understand why Primerica reps are so passionate about doing the wrong thing. I mean it has been proven over & over that there are better options. It’s not an issue of selling more expensive products, it is about the reps getting on a soap box and telling everyone how great Primerica is and how horrible everyone else is.
When you get time I would love to hear about your experience when it came time to refinance your $MART loan. I know that you were giving the PFS rep the opportunity to keep your business, but I am curious how you felt as an educated consumer after the great info Ken gave you.
Thanks!
Ex-Primerican,
I did refinance my mortgage way back in March of ‘09, and we did not go with Primerica again. I did look at all my options (as I did the first time), and this go around went with a local bank I’ve been meaning to write about why for the longest time. I promise I’ll get to it soon. At the time I was finishing up my masters, then this summer I started a new small business and have been doing a lot of traveling.
I still have some work to do upgrading this blog as well before I can write much (and post the info Ken has been sending). I’m shamefully behind on that.
But I’ll tell you, it wasn’t anything Ken sent. I crunched the numbers and it was a no brainer with interest rates as they were at the time.
Chris
66 Ken // Aug 24, 2009 at 8:47 am
A conventional loan was always a no brainer.
67 LookingAtPrimerica // Sep 3, 2009 at 9:33 am
Ken and Ex, this board seems to be a part time job for each of you. Why? Why all the energy devoted to it. Conversations with yourself? I can see posting a couple of times but this “impressive” to say the least. Any thoughts?
68 Ken // Sep 3, 2009 at 11:28 pm
It’s the passion to make sure people don’t make the same mistakes I’ve made.
69 Barney // Sep 4, 2009 at 10:06 am
I think I need to chip in on a few thing that the bashers have mentioned.
Primerica (PFS) has never said they have the best rates, that is not their point. But if you are comparing a PFS term policy (they only sell term because nothing else makes sense) one must make sure the non-PFS policy includes the ‘guaranteed insurability rider’ which all PFS policies include. This means that after the term is over, if you wish to get another term you do not have to get a physical. This is important. If you get a 20 year term insurance at age 40 you may need to renew at age 60. This rider says you do not need a new physical. Try to find an insurance company willing to give term insurance to someone 60 with no physical. In addition Primerica policies have the ‘living needs/accelerated death benefit rider’ where a terminally ill insured has the option to receive a percentage of the proceeds before death in order to pay medical expenses. So when you compare PFS term policies with non-PFS policies, make sure you add in those two riders or else you will not be comparing apples to apples.
Now I would like to give kudos to Single Mom, her posts have been the most coherent on this site for a while. She saved a family $700 a month. The bashers say PFS sucks because they could save that same family $900 a month. My question to the bashers is: when are you going to Single Mom’s town to help that family? You have not given us the name of any company nor any information about another company that is out there helping people. PFS is in Single Mom’s town, are you? Can you help that family? Isn’t saving a family $700 a month right now better than the potential that you might come along and save them $900 at a later date? Primerica is a national company helping people all over the country. The bashers aren’t.
If Primerica were as bad as the bashers say one would assume the Better Business Bureau would have had complaints by now. Let’s see.
http://www.bbb.org/atlanta/business-reviews/financial-planning-consultants/primerica-financial-services-in-duluth-ga-6985
Wow, an A+. A company does not get A+ ratings if people issue complaints.
And how bad are Primerica’s mutual funds? DALBAR is a company that rates firms.
http://www.dalbar.com/content/showpage.asp?page=2009012101
Primerica mutual funds were ranked tied for 6th in the nation last year.
Standard and Poor rates “AA” (very strong) for the company’s capacity to meet its financial commitments.
A.M. Best Company is a global full-service company that provides an independent opinion of an insurer’s financial strength and ability to meet its ongoing insurance policy and contract obligations. This rating is assigned to insurance companies. Primerica Life Insurance has an A+ rating.
Does this sound like a terrible company to anyone besides Ken and the bashers?
So those who are trying to decide whether to go to a Primerica opportunity meeting you have two choices: 1) invest only an hour of your time to see if it makes sense for you to become more financially educated, help families save money and become financially independent and get paid doing it or 2) listen to some anonymous people on the internet who say not to.
Now it is time for me to get attacked….
70 Ken // Sep 4, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Ok, where do we start?
Let’s start with the easiest…from the mutual fund site you sent “Dalbar”
“(Boston, MA. January 21, 2009) Today DALBAR released the 2008 winners of its annual Service Awards. For more than a decade, DALBAR has conducted rigorous testing of service delivery and, each year, identified those mutual fund, broker/dealer, annuity, life insurance and retirement plan providers that are able to deliver industry-leading service to their customers.”
The mutual fund company winning an award for service, does not mean it’s a good product. A vendor at a flea market could offer top-notch service, but if he’s charging more for an under-performing product, he’s not doing anyone any favors.
71 Ken // Sep 4, 2009 at 9:41 pm
“Wow, an A+. A company does not get A+ ratings if people issue complaints”
Do you know how the BBB operates? You PAY to belong to the BBB. It’s not a regulated service. If someone complains, you have a relations department that knows exactly how to respond to them. You also continue to “donate” and your slate stays clean.
As far as financial strength ratings, they’re important. But again, it speaks nothing of the product. If you charge 50% more for something and don’t have salaries to pay, your financial strength BETTER be rated high.
Back to the basics…there are companies that have received an A+ rating CONSECUTIVELY, for 3 times as long as Primerica has even been in business. So, if their products are much less expensive and offer more than PFS, the financial rating means a lot less.
72 Ken // Sep 4, 2009 at 9:49 pm
“But if you are comparing a PFS term policy (they only sell term because nothing else makes sense) one must make sure the non-PFS policy includes the ‘guaranteed insurability rider’ which all PFS policies include.”
Why don’t you show everyone here some of your insurance knowledge and tell us which A+ rated insurers are selling term that isn’t guaranteed renewable?? The ADB is a nice feature that others offer, but not at a 50% add-on to the premium.
” (they only sell term because nothing else makes sense)”
You’re showing your lack of knowledge. Don’t be a parrot. Study the products!
“My question to the bashers is: when are you going to Single Mom’s town to help that family? ”
So, tell me which companies do NOT go to her town?Does this sound like a terrible company to anyone besides Ken and the bashers?”
It’s not terrible, the products and the lack of education make it downright ridiculous!
73 Corey // Sep 7, 2009 at 12:45 pm
I’ve recently started with Primerica and I’m still somewhat skeptical. This blog and replies have led me to committing to asking more questions and making sure I get the right answers.
However I’m very interested in seeing some actual comparisons, some real numbers. You guys keep says that you continually replace all the Primerica products you come into contact with, but keep asking the Primerica people to give you numbers that you can beat. Why can’t you just post the numbers?
I’ve been told that the cheapest Life Ins policy the company will offer is $25 a month.
While searching google, I ran across this site: https://www.intelliquote.com/default.asp and saw a few offers at lower rates than the $25 that Primerica offers. I’m a 25y/o male who has never smoked in good health and when I put in my numbers for a $100000 I was told there weren’t any policies offered and I should try a higher coverage amount. I tried $200000 and I got a rate of $21 a month. I don’t know what riders and exclusions the policy has, but I’m probably going to look into the company offering that rate and ask about viewing a policy so I can make my own decision.
I don’t know anything about the Primerica Mortgage or Investment program yet, I’ve only been dealing with them for about 5 weeks. I haven’t sold anybody anything or recruited people, but I would like to look into this further before I do. It would be helpful if you guys could post some actual numbers that I could see.
Thanks
Corey
74 Ken // Sep 7, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Corey,
I applaud you for digging a little deeper. At risk of “advertising” or “trying to get business” instead of just discussing anonymously, I won’t post anything in regards to rates that I can quote you.
However, I’ve seen a site called insurancepickle.com that shows many carriers and their premium quotes.
As far as your numbers, you didn’t mention the term of the policy you were searching for. This is more important that any riders or exclusions. Most A-rated carriers will have the same riders available and the exclusions are pretty standard.
Once you discover just how expensive PFS life insurance is, keep in mind that the insurance is the “best” product they offer as far as value. They try to “justify” the expense by offering the FNA, etc. Really, their idea of the “total package” is very basic to those in the industry. I can create a plan that is exponentially better than their FNA. Of course, there’s no charge for it with me.
Don’t let them feed you the line that people like me only talk to wealthy clients. It’s just not true. I truly enjoying getting people started up with an IRA.
75 Corey // Sep 7, 2009 at 4:17 pm
I actually just came from a meeting with my Trainer and it seems like every time I talk to her I’m uncovering more lies and/or deceptions. Its very frustrating to have them tell me things and then I put my credibility on the line with my friends and family to find out later that they were lieing to me. They tell me that I should ask my friends and family to help with my training and they won’t be allowed to buy anything, but then my trainer gives them the “hard-sell” for the FNA and tries to reschedule for them to buy something at that point. They say at the Bussiness Overview that its $99 +$25 a month until you get your license and then I find out that the $25 a month is for Primerica Online, a service that they say is vital for working with them. They tell me that they can’t pay me until I get licensed but that I should do business through my trainer and it will count for me, then I find out thats not true. There are a few more but its getting a bit frustrating from my point of view.
I’m very much considering calling my friends that I’ve spoken to about meeting with them or joining Primerica and telling them not to bother. Then telling Primerica I want my $125+$57 that they told me I would be refunded and getting my $69 back as well.
About the Insurance, I was looking at a 30 year term. I also checked out SBLI and Prudential and they were much lower than the 25 for the same coverage.
Actually the biggest thing thats frustrating me right now about them is that you don’t get to keep your FNA. They show it to you once and then take it away.
Would you be able to discuss your rates and possibly how you do business through E-mail? I’m actually still looking for something to do part time while I go back to school and the part about helping people really does appeal to me.
Thanks
Corey
76 Wanted tobe primerican // Sep 11, 2009 at 2:18 am
Ken and ex-primerican you guys save me time and money, it was worth it reading late, Thank you!
77 Anonymous // Sep 11, 2009 at 7:59 am
my name is o and im dealing with primerica i asked one of the rep not to go into my account due to the fact that their wasnt any money in their and they went into my account anyway checks bounced and my account was over drawn and i feel i cant trust them not only did they go into my account they went in more than once back to back im being charged by the bank for everytime they enterd my account and i just cant trust primerica
78 X-Primerican // Sep 11, 2009 at 11:04 am
LookingatPrimerica - I haven’t been on in awhile, but the reason I post is simple. I was taken advantage of and sold this crap to my family & friends. I believed in the products and the company. Then I learned the truth! I don’t want anyone to ever go through what I went through. At least with a little knowledge they will make informed decisions.
Barney - I think Ken answered all of your questions. My only suggestion with people “interviewing” with PFS is to get the facts. Compare apples to apples. Why are PFS reps so scared of their clients & reps learning the truth? It is so obvious how to fix PFS’s problems - get competitive!
Corey - I am with Ken about not soliciting, but I will tell you that I personally replaced my PFS insurance with SBLI. Also if you are looking for a part time job there are a few options. (1) Look up a local insurance brokerage and ask them is there a GA you can work with. (2) There are other companies, similar to PFS, that allow you to work part time. They are not captive and you can own the business from the get go. I’m not a fan of the MLM structure, but if your interested look into HBW or Capital Choice. (I interviewed with Capital Choice and they are very professional, I decided to start me own company instead. I wanted to get away from the MLM Stigma)
Wanted to be Primerican - Knowledge is power! I wish someone would have told me to do research and pointed me in the right direction over a decade ago!
79 what is good viral marketing for primerica life insurance? // Sep 27, 2009 at 3:05 am
[...] http://chriswondra.com/2009/05…..uest-post/References : Reply [...]
80 Frankie // Oct 1, 2009 at 5:21 am
I want to first thank you for creating a forum to discuss and research the various views posted here. I just want to add to the discussion and add my view. I was first introduced to Primerica through a co-worker in 2005 and had a FNA presented for myself and family. I was newly married and had 3 young children under the age of 5, I had no protection, no plan but work like a man is suppose to, and was asking God to show me a way. “I chose to buy a life policy at a price that I felt I could pay”. I was a smoker (at that time) and my wife had type 2 diabetes so to make it plain we did not get a “preferred rating” or “standard rate”. As a matter of fact my wife was unable to secure coverage but I took a policy to protect the gaps.
Was I recruited, I sure was. I was a good salesman in the wireless industry at the time and have a nice circle of influence, as I was “recruited by T-Mobile, Verizon, At&t (was managing several Sprint/Nextel locations) as well. I was recruited by mortgage brokers before the IMPLOSION and during. I took my time and visited the opportunity nights on a few nights. I went as a guest to a Fast Start School to see the culture and leadership.
I was a student of mlm and network marketing as in my days of college I was introduced and joined a company many have heard of Quixtar aka Amway
I did not make a fortune and to be honest I lost money on that opportunity but so I have I in several businesses start ups and partnerships, non-profit consulting business, taxi/livery service, and even W2 jobs in the past. Even though I took some knocks I always had a vision and belief that I was going to be significant. It was a learning experience.
Fast forward to 2008 and still no IBA submission to Duluth, Georgia. Reason being was because I was a little beat up and wanted to have a “stable job” and security with benefits after years of being a poor student, a poor entrepreneur, to becoming a cynic and pessimist. Again I was out and about and was approached by a very attractive PFS rep and was invited out to another base shop. The difference was the timing. I understood what the Primerica Opportunity had the potential to do with a system and understanding business principles.
I then went out to search for a base shop that I felt comfortable with (like visiting churches looking for a home), heard pretty much the same talks, presentations but I was drawn to a small base shop ( I have the passion to work with young ministries, “new to the faith” or “new in experience” like a teacher’s heart) and I place my whooping $124 ($99 + $25 for online service) and decided to get licensed and develop some more skills.
Is it true that there are some pretenders in the PFS house? (of course…just like Red Sox fans when they’re losing to the Yankees). I understood from my Amway days that in order to have success and a life I needed to learn how to recruit in a way that did not make me feel self loathing or deceitful. I had discovered the principle of “attraction marketing” and how with this powerful concept I could throw out the who “3 foot rule” and just focus on services clients that sought me out. I understood that the best thing I could do while building a career with Primerica is to develop and own my own list (emails) that I own and and are not held in Primerica’s database. I have learned how to generate my own leads online (like most of you probably do) and I am able to attract like minded partners (make affiliated profits upfront to sustain my cash flow), so I do not have to walk around broke selling an opportunity of stories. I enjoy the pleasure of meeting families that I choose to target (my niche market..families that looked just like I did) and educate them about debt protection. I have my own loan originator’s licenses, and I agree on paper it is way more lucrative for me to do a loan in house then through Citi Mortgage but for the most part the folks I am looking to help are skeptical of all financial services (hello Merrill lynch, AIG), when was the last time you looked at your caller ID and seen Household Finance or any company offering to refinance your home (the market is tight, folks are scared, it is the best of time if you can get your foot under any kitchen table). So I think we can end the mortgage debate. rates are rates it doesn’t guarantee that you will get whats quoted, points fee, yield spreads, closing costs, its all the same to folks who just want to pay less then what they currently are.
You are 100% correct (ex-primerican), not having a securities license is a disservice to the clients but to talk about upfront loads like it isn’t part of business is unfair (same for whole life right?) So, back to “investing the difference” with Primerica, we should really stop demonizing this point. Most investors and even novice have heard of (Legg Mason Partners Funds, Franklin Templeton Investments, Invesco AIM Investments, MetLife Investors) are just some of the Mutual Funds and Annuities professionals that we bring the business to (at the kitchen table) and PFS pays out to its licensed sales force (its not the lottery or some glorified excel spread sheet). Please play nice.
Overall, it is not a place for everyone just like the NBA or PGA Tour. We are all in the people business so if you are one of the ones who are undecided, take a deep breath, watch as many times and observe, and get to work on the inside when your are led.
God Bless America (freedom of speech and to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness)
Frankie Mozell
http://frankiemozell.com
81 what is good viral marketing for primerica life insurance? | Your BoomSphere: // Oct 2, 2009 at 5:55 pm
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82 Blah! // Oct 7, 2009 at 4:37 am
Oh my goodness!!! Ken, ………….. You sound like someone who just went through a heartbreak and ………………!! Or like …………………….! How can you spend so much time on a company that has been running for 33 years plus and is still going strong?! NO it OBVIOUSLY didn’t work out …………….. If you have so much time to bash this company, then why don’t you put your ………. time into another company?! ……………………………… Use your time more wisely!!! You’re ………………… No, you’re like ………………….. And for the record NO I am not with primerica! If there’s any advice you need to take and apply to your life is this: …………………………….
Blah,
Most of your comment was a personal attack. For some weird reason today, I’m feeling generous and didn’t completely delete the whole thing. Just the stupid parts.
Don’t bother commenting here again. You’re not helping.
Chris
83 Ken // Oct 8, 2009 at 8:23 pm
Blah,
There are plenty of companies that have been around 33 years. It doesn’t mean they represent themselves as the best thing since sliced bread when they’re truly one of the most misleading, like Primerica does.
Like Ex-Primerican, it’s obvious that all we want is people to know the TRUTH. You’ll notice, nothing we’ve ever said has been PROVEN false. Need we say more?
84 Rory // Oct 10, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Thank you everybody I just went this morning to my 1st meeting and was real confused I thought I was going to interview for a customer service job and I really thought was WHAT I dont want to bother my family or my friends to do this. Thank you
85 Bob47 // Oct 10, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Thanks a lotI consider this site a very good one for me to face the interview questions ahead of me. ,
86 Curious // Oct 16, 2009 at 12:10 am
Can someone outline how it is the a new recruit makes money in Promerica? I heard that originally you make $50-250 off each auto insurance you can sell, but that doesn’t sound very attractive considering that just makes you a salesman running around trying to convince skeptical people. All the effort you put in probably warrants more.
So if a recruit is willing to be unethical - that is to say, being OK with selling a flawed product, something real must entice him/her to do so? When do the big bucks come?
87 Vlad // Oct 16, 2009 at 10:09 am
Just started with Primerica, I’ve handed over the $99 and I’ve started taking the classes. And yeah I was wierded out by it since day one, but I went on with it. I just graduated with a Business Management and Financing been through some interviews haven’t gotten any work yet, the Job search has been a failure so far.
I thought hey I’d try Primerica and get something to (at least) put on my resume or to to make some income. Is my reasoning off?
I have a few questions if you guys don’t mind.
1) Is it a high pressure environment? Will I have people hovering over me asking me to make up sales?
2) Is this a viable part time job at the very least?
3) My “warm market” hovers around freezing point. I have very few friends and a I refuse to sell my family something as important as life insurance. My upline tells me this is not a problem but am I looking at months of no income?
4) The regional manager makes $30,000 a month supposedly. Is this an exception to the rule or not?
5) My upline has invited me to the Poconos with the group, it seems strange to me, since I’ve only been around for two weeks. Should I be cautious?
6) Can you succeed without spending any more in the company beyond the 99 + 25?
7) The two year no competition clause, (something my upline didn’t tell me about) is it already in effect (when does come into effect)? In fact I’m not even sure if I am hired officially I know that I am registered for classes but am I an employee?
9) Do other companies respect Primerica. I.E will it (and the license) be a decent addition to any resume?
10) Is it easy to quit?
Thanks in advance for the advice.
88 X-Primerican // Oct 16, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Here is the calculation of Primerica life insurance commission scale.
Monthly Premium X 12 months = Total Premiums paid.
Total Premium paid - $75 policy fee = Premium available for for commission. (Bonusable Premium)
Bonusable Premium X PFS agents level = Total commission
Total Commission X .75 for advance = total cash to the agent. (The remaining 25% is paid when the policy is nearing the end of it’s first year)
Primerica Reps levels with commissions:
Rep - 25%
Senior Rep - 35%
District Leader - 50%
Division Leader - 60%
Regional Leader - 70%
Provisional RVP (no longer around) - 85%
RVP - 95%
Here is an example:
Assume a District leader writes a $50 per month life sale.
$600 is total annual premium paid by the clients ($50 x 12months)
$525 is the bonusable Premium ($600 - $75)
$262.50 - Total compensation as a district leader . ($525 X 50% contract)
$196.88 - Total advance to the selling District leader. (The remaining $65.62 will be paid out through the last couple months of the first year the policy is active)
The big bucks come when you are a RVP and you go out and hire a new rep to sell the product to his/her family. In the example above this would be the breakdown.
Newly Licensed Rep makes - $131.25
If the RVP made the sale himself he/she would have made - $498.75
The difference in the contract is called an “over ride”. So the RVP would make $367.50 from this example.
This is why the major recruiting push. To get into peoples warm markets to sell then recruit and continue the cycle.
NOTE - I don’t have an issue with the pay scale. I think the reps are pretty poorly paid, but it took me less than 4 months to get to Regional Leader, so I never really dealt with the low pay scales! If people are okay working for pennies who am I to disagree with them.
My issue is that the reps are told they are selling the best product and believe so when they sell it to their family. You can’t claim to be the champions of the middle class then sell some of the most expensive term on the market! That’s just not ethical to me.
89 Curious // Oct 17, 2009 at 10:51 am
One more question: why can’t you find Primerica on the Citi website?
90 X-Primerican // Oct 18, 2009 at 8:08 pm
Vlad,
Congrats on doing some research! I will be honest with you that when I joined the company I knew nothing and jumped in with both feet. Here are the answers to your questions to the best of my ability.
(1) Hire Pressure – that honestly depends on your office and your trainer, but I have seen both extremes. I would say that most of the pressure really comes in two forms. The first is pressure for you to attend all of the meetings. (I have seen people miss their kids games, birthdays, and other events just because the RVP told them that the meeting was a life changing event) The second, and highest pressure, is to bring people to the meetings and set appointments for FNAs.
(2) For me it was. I made a very decent part-time income with Primerica from year 1. (I made $30k my first year and I never made less than that). I had a very large warm market and grew up in this area, so it was very easy for me. For those people who don’t have a large market it is very very difficult just to make even the equivalent to minimum wage. (when you factor in the cost of gas, supplies, fees, and your time in meetings & appointments)
(3) Unfortunately yes I would say it is going to be hard for you to get rolling right away. Your only choice is really to recruit, recruit, recruit. That way you can use their warm markets. Since you say you have a small warm market that means you will be recruiting people (cold) in public. Typically that is done by going out and talking to the cashiers, managers, and anyone else you can. Your job will be to get them in front of your RVP. It’s not impossible, but it is a lot harder than people like me who had a very warm market.
(4) It’s possible. A little known fact about people who wear the $100k plus ring is that just because they wear the ring doesn’t mean they make that money currently. One Primerica RVP I knew made $100k in 2000 and has never made more than $50k a yr since. He still wears the ring and still shows people his picture in the $100k plus book. I’m not saying your RVP is like that, but it is possible. People like Jim Meyer, Hector Lamarque, Keith Otto, Chris Howard, and many more people make A LOT of money, but those people in Primerica who make over $50k a year is a very small percentage of the company.
(5) Go and have fun! In Primerica we called it relationship building. There was a saying when I was in Primerica. “An employee will quit on an employer, but a friend will never quit on a friend.” When I was in Primerica I had some of the best friends ever, but when I started questioning things and finally left I was treated like cancer. Those mentors and friends I thought I had turned out to see me as nothing more than a paycheck. I am shocked at what is being said about me to this day!
(6) Yes you can succeed with out buying stuff, but there will be things you need to buy. Business Cards, licensing renewals for your securities license ($400+ per year), mortgage licenses, life CEs, brochures (if you need to use them), cost of running FNAs on your printer, $mart Phone or PDA so you can do turbo apps (if you want to get paid faster), cost of fast start schools, and so on. My rule when I was in Primerica was that my first license (life) would pay for every other license. I didn’t spend any of the money I made until I purchased all of my licenses with the profits from the life policies I sold.
(7) The 2 yr no compete clause starts when you quit the company. It is not based on when you join the company or when you write the business or get the recruit.
(8) I learned some, but 90% of the training is about selling the products & recruiting. When I left Primerica it took me over a year to really learn about the real world financial world. I was shocked at how little I knew. (I was considered the product expert in our area for Primerica!)
(9) That’s pretty hard to answer. Most companies I know consider Primerica a typical MLM type company (So no respect), but if you’re a good guy I think you would be fine. Don’t expect people to beat down your door because you have Primerica on your resume.
(10) Yes it is very easy to quit. All you do is submit a resignation letter and that’s it. I got a nasty call from my RVP telling me that if I replaced any policies or moved any investments he would sue me & a letter from Primerica Home Office telling me to return anything with Primerica on it. (I think it’s funny they told me to return things I paid for!)
Hope this helps!
X-Primerican,
Will you please email me at: mrwondra@gmail.com ?
Thanks,
Chris
91 X-Primerican // Oct 18, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Curious,
Primerica is a subsidiary of Citi, that is why you can’t really find them there. Citi has been trying to sell Primerica for a couple years now, but so far no one is willing to buy it at the current price.
When I was in Primerica we really pushed the Citi name when recruiting and tried to avoid mentioning Primerica at all costs. This practice is continuing still to this day with the majority of offices. Look at all of the examples on other blogs about deceptive recruiting tactics. Primerica is hardly never mentioned.
I hope this info helped you out.
92 Ken // Oct 19, 2009 at 1:11 am
embarrassment?
93 Kris // Oct 19, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Hello all,
I have been pursued at work by a co-worker to join in on the primarica thing. I hear so many different opportunities and then it seems that the negatives are personal opinions.
Here are my questions
1. Why is there never any advertisement on this company, I never heard of it until now, am I that nieve?!
2. The whole purpose of getting people licenced seems to be for the money of the person that recruted you, Is this why they could care less if you devote yourself to this or not?
3. I was told that Primarica is up for sale, which is true from what i researched, however, I was also told that no one will offer Primarica what they want in order for the company to be bought. any thoughts or is this purely hearsay
4. why is Citi group breaking away from Primarica?
94 Kris // Oct 19, 2009 at 4:33 pm
overall, how much did they sucker you for?
95 X-Primerican // Oct 19, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Kris,
Your asking some pretty tough questions to answer! Haha
First the negatives you mentioned being opinions. I have so many opinions of Primerica (most are negative), but I try to stick to the facts and avoid giving opinions. This is why it is almost impossible to answer a few of your questions. I will answer what I can to the best of my ability.
1. The reason Primerica doesn’t advertise is pretty simple. They don’t have too. In Primerica it’s all about “recruiting” someone and getting into their warm market. (aka - their family and friends) From there the new recruit can sell the products in the warm market virtually unchallenged. (Family typically doesn’t shop around when a family member is selling them a product)
2. Primerica reps will tell you that you do not get paid to recruit or get people licensed. That is 100% the truth, but it is also misleading. When you get a new recruit you typically sell them products (so PFS reps make $), then the new recruit takes you to see their warm market (Primerica reps call it training) where you sell products to them. (PFS reps make $ again) The goal while doing this is to hire a few people and keep repeating the cycle.
3. There is honestly no right answer here. Primerica reps say that Primerica is the most profitable company in the world, they are debt free, pay more commissions than anyone else, etc… If any of that were the truth wouldn’t you think that someone would buy them? There were rumors Warren Buffet considered buying them, but changed his mind. Who knows what’s really happening.
4. Who knows. Personally I think it is the stigma of Primerica in the financial industry, the potential regulatory issues with so many uneducated people representing the company, and the over all profitability of the company. I know I will get slammed here by the Primerica reps, but if Primerica truly was the greatest company every why has citi been trying to dump it? If the company was so successful why hasn’t it been sold?
Let’s look at facts:
1. Primerica life is some of the most expensive term insurance on the market today.
2. The FNA offered by Primerica is not a financial plan! It’s a selling tool.
3. 100% of the time a client is better going with a conventional 20yr loan over a $mart loan. (Yes even with a 80% LTV)
4. Primerica mutual funds are heavily loaded.
5. In order to join Primerica you need a pulse, $99fee, $25 per month, and sit through a 40 class, and pass a test. There is no formal training. (Those meetings they call training are more like indoctrinations)
6. Primerica reps are not financial planners, advisors, coaches, analysts, etc… They are SALES PEOPLE!
7. You can not claim to do what is right 100% of the time if you only represent 1 company!
I could go on & one, but I bet you get the point.
96 what is good viral marketing for primerica life insurance? | Free Viral Marketing // Oct 19, 2009 at 6:11 pm
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97 Charlie // Oct 27, 2009 at 4:25 pm
An awful lot has been said about the cost of the term insurance offered by Primerica and that it is a lot higher than other term insurance available from other companies. Presuming this is true, I would submit that if one looks long enough and hard enough, one can always find someone else to buy anything from cheaper. Especially when you are talking about service products. If the gentlemen that have stated they have been able to replace every term policy they ever sold as Primerica Reps with same or better policies from their new companies at lower cost to thier clients (and double the commissions for themselves) were confident enough in the value of their new company’s, products they would reveal the names of those companies. Using the “I am not here to solicit business” is the easy way out for them to not have someone else reading here to find yet another company that can beat their new companies rates as well.
The mortgage (Smart Loan v Conventional Financing) issue is another story all together. The fact is that few homeowners with high debt in America today will even qualify for a debt consolidation/conventional mortgage (even if they have excellent credit scores i.e., 700 +) due to the restrictive guidelines for conventional loans today. In the event that they need a loan in excess of 80% loan to value (LTV) and they CAN qualify for a conventional loan that will include enough money to pay off all of their existing debt as well, their interest rate is going to be very much higher on that conventinal loan than if the LTV was under 80%. SO, to say that a conventional loan is always the smarter choice than the SMART loan is not a valid argument if one is not able to qualify for the conventional loan to begin with, but can qualify for the SMART loan, or, if the interest rates given the individual borrowers quaifying capacity and loan amount give them a an interest rate that is equal in both cases.
As far as the 5% load on the mutual funds…that is a common fee figure for a huge number of Class A Share mutual fund companies. Are there lower fee mutual funds? Of course. Does Primerica have access to those as well? Of course. Do lower fee funds out perform higher fee funds? Some do, some don’t. Do higher fee funds out perform lower fee funds? Some do, some don’t.
I guess for me it all comes down to this…is a family that buys a term policy from a Primerica Rep (or any other Life Insurance Company Rep for that matter) at whatever price they pay, better off if the covered party dies and the life insurance is paid to the beneficiary vs not having bought a cheaper policy from some other company at all? That’s a no-brainer.
Is a family better off if they are putting away money every month into an investment that will likely grow over time, even if they are charged a 5% fee to do so, vs not saving/investing anything at all and not paying the 5% fee? Pretty simple answer for thais one too.
In terms of the education issue…anyone that thinks they can get the licenses one needs to work in the financial services arena (Life&Health, Series 6 & 66), for less than the $99 that Primerica charges you to get them, has no idea what the preparation classes and the testing fees are for these licenses. As far as Primerica knowingly allowing its new reps to sell products that they are not licensed to sell…I find that pretty unlikely with the extreme amount of oversight in the Financial Services industry today.
Primerica is a very solid company that has been in business for 33 + years and has consistently performed well, and is among the highest quartile ratings from the rating agencies for both its insurance and investments. Is it currently for sale? Yes it is. Why, and why has no one bought it yet? No one has met the asking price ( 7 Billion Dollars, roughly 15 times annual earnings) yet would be my guess. Does this mean they are a crappy company? Of course not.
I do not have a dog in this fight at all. I am not a Rep with Primerica and I do not have ownership of any of their products. I am employed in the Financial Services industry, ( Series 7, Seris 66, Life and Health licensed) and I also own a mortgage company and have for 9 years.
My unsolicited advice to anyone looking at joining any organization that you can earn a living for yourself and your family by assisting other family’s become more financially educated and protected is DO IT! As long as you are doing your best with what you have to bring to the table to provide a better life for your clients, you will be successful and they will be grateful. If you are doing so in an authentic and genuine manner with ethics and integrity, you are going to make the world a better place. God knows we can use all the help we can get doing that.
98 Jeremy // Oct 28, 2009 at 10:57 pm
well, first of all, i am not a native english speaker, so pardon my bad english
Ken, Ex-Prime, thanks for both of you.
Both of you have opened my eyes.
I am a freelance computer repair guy. My market has been very slow this year, and I decided to look another job.
One day, a lady call me, and asked me about the new job she offered to me. My bad, i never ask her what kind of job is that.
She told me to come for the JOB INTERVIEW. So what i thought is, i am looking to have a job, not a business opportunity or MLM services.
When she asked me to get to the room, and sit down, well i just realized that i have been lured to listen to the “preacher” for 2 hours. Yeah, 2 hours, no break.
Like someone in this forum said, “they were looking at us like a dog looking at the delicious meat”
I am not a dumb or uneducated person. I do everything on my own. I do research on 1 thing before I decided to buy or to try it.
Lets say, 4 years ago, i want to buy a cell phone. and i started to research anything about the cell phone, until i know EVERYTHING about the cellphone, anything about GSM, CDMA, Pixel color, camera, text, 3g, 2g, 4g, internet mobile, etc…
I just wondering 1 thing.
The citi group have the largest bank on USA which is citibank.
Why do citi group bother to subsidiary the Primerica, since every RVP told us the if everyone knows about the “savings” with Primerica, bank will go broke ? include their parent company ? LOL
I am not going into Primerican.
and also, their attitude is not right. I feel being indoctrinated, and i am feeling poor for them.
99 Jeremy // Oct 29, 2009 at 12:01 am
and you know what, I was taking my gf with me, she just want to accompany me.
Well, beside being lured to hear the speaker for over 2 years, she put us to sit in the front row.
I just lost my 4 hours (2 hours of “financial lecture”, 1 hour traveling back and forth, 1 hour for admission and “job” interview)
The creepiest thing is how they find you by checking out online resumes on monster, craigslist, etc. they call you as if you’re a candidate for some position! Yes, I remember that she phone me, and tell me if she consider few positions for me. She never tell me about what job is that, or the name of the company whatsoever.She just afraid if she will be telling us that we will work on Primerica, MLM services.
Another fact why I decided not to trust them is because their doctrine. We (me with my gf) were sat down with a round table, and first, she just like a regular job interview, asking how old, past job, etc. Until 1 part that she questioned about where is all my family member located ? and I answered most of them are on another HALF world away. She didnt look happy with my answer.
And I remember 3 times she were repeating the same sentence which is “We all trying to be happy. In order to be happy, we need to find money as much as we can. So we find money first, and then happy” , but the funny thing is, I was like whispering to her telling her that I disagree with her statement. In order to be happy, we DO NOT need to have much money. We can be happy even without money or without enough money. Money is not the measurement of someone’s happiness. Just look at the our hollywood’s stars. Are they happy ? Are they look satisfy with their life ? Well, most of them are not!
Everytime when i disagree with her “happiness” sentence, she just stop speaking and look at me, and I stop whispering , and look at her too.
And here is the last deal. Before we left that place, when I was sat down with my gf, both of us were waiting for her. After she finished with our stuff, she with other RVP were leaving the place with us, and I whispered my gf. They were 2 car outside. 1 car is hyundai 1998 and other is civic 2008. I told my gf, say “Honey, I bet that she will be riding that poor hyundai car, and the RVP might riding with civic car” Guess what, both of them are riding the hyundai 1998 car.
I believe that both of them are showing that they are making “good” money while riding the $1500 car.
100 X-Primerican // Oct 29, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Jeremy,
It all really boils down to the deceptive recruiting tactics they used to get you to the office. The truth is that Primerica’s Home Office has guidelines that recruits are supposed to follow, and since I spent a long time with Primerica I know very few offices follow those guidelines. It is against company guidelines to mention or imply that you are interviewing for a job! This is where I would say 99% of the complaints come from about Primerica.
As for the referrals that is the only way to penetrate a recruits market. Again I don’t really see problems with doing that, it’s just doing so with the notion that you are providing the best service when it’s no where near the truth. There is no need to go into products since we are talking about recruiting, but I’m sure you understand my point.
Finally I have to mention about your comment on the type of car someone drives. Some of my wealthiest clients are very frugal. They prefer to invest in their future not into flashy cars. Trust me a civic or Hyubdai without a car payment is a lot more attractive to me than a Mercedes with a $800 car payment.
If you read “The Millionaire Next Door” by Thomas Stanely you will really open your eyes. The most popular vehicle driven by millionaires today is not a Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, etc… the most popular vehicle with millionaires is the Ford F150.
Not to give a lecture, but the problem with our society is that we believe in the bigger, the more expensive, the better. Add on top of that people financing their lives away you can see why we have a developing debt crisis in this country. We are now a society that has more people filing for bankruptcy every year than graduating from college! It is unbelievable.
This is what I tell every client - My job is to find the best products that fit your current and future needs at the best cost for your family. Your job is to double and triple check what I’m saying to get that warm & fuzzy feeling that you are making the best decision for your family. You never do business with a company that offers only 1 point of view. Always get 3 different companies life insurance quotes, Always check with 3 different lenders, and always interview 3 different investment broker. Remember that we are salespeople! This insures I provide the best service and quality products to my client and they know that they are dealing with someone who has there best interest at heart.
I’m stepping off of my soapbox now!
Cheers!
101 Curious // Nov 5, 2009 at 7:40 pm
I’m curious what these two guys(Twiddle Dee and Twiddle Dum,you know who you are) make for income if they take a month off.
Do you still have income?
102 Ken // Nov 6, 2009 at 9:17 am
I’ll take the role of Tweedle Dum…
Between renewals and trails, I GUARANTEE that I make more in 1 week on the beach in Hawaii than 95% of Primericans do all year. My business (I actually own something, unlike Primerica) is easily run by my employees. It’s MY business and the income is determined by ME and how hard my EMPLOYEES work, not how hard some ham n egger tries to recruit or decides to work while I’m gone.
“How much do they make while they’re on vacation?”
I love this time-tested Primerica question. In reality, less than .5% of Primericans make ANYTHING all year, let alone on vacation. LOL
So, superstar, how much income are you GUARANTEED while you’re on vacation?
Another question, guaranteed to be ignored…At what point do you EVER own ANYTHING in Primerica? Read your IBA and let me know. LOL
103 X-Primerican // Nov 6, 2009 at 4:36 pm
I guess I get to be Twiddle Dee then.
Although I consider myself a very good financial planner I will tell you that I consider myself an expert traveler so finally we get to talk about something I know a lot about! LOL!!
As for making money while on vacation I tend to agree with Ken. Between my 12b1s, renewals, other agents, and the internet I can make money regardless where I am in the world. While I was in Europe for almost 3 weeks my office closed 4 loans, $18k in life premium, and just shy of $500k in investments. So not a bad little income while I was traveling.
Of course if I did hit a rough time I could just sell all of my old Primerica stuff on Ebay! I bet I could make $10k on CDs & DVDs…. LOL!!!
Seriously though Curious, let’s just stick to the facts and not attack each other. Ken & I were just like you at one time, the only difference is somewhere along the way we took the “we do what’s right 100% of the time” to heart and decided to find a place to hang our hats where our clients & our families benefit the most.
Finally Ken makes a great point about ownership. A friend from is retiring from PFS after 23yrs with the company. (with almost 20yrs as a RVP) He is selling his SOLUTION # to his SNSD, but that is all he owns. He does not own the business. He can not take his clients to another firm, and because of the “No Compete clause” he can not offer his clients better and less expensive products. He only has 2 choices. (1) continue in a business that he no longer feels meets his moral standards. He loved Art Williams, but can not stand the way the company treats the sales force or the clients. (2) Sell his solution number for whatever price some other Primerica big wig is willing to pay for it. We were always told you could sell your business for 8 to 10 times what your annual salary is, so in his case he was thinking $1.6 to $2million dollars. He is getting less than 1/3 of that! Sounds like the dream sold the opportunity meetings right?
So do you really own your own business or do you own a solution number? A solution number who’s value is only determined by what some other Primerica person is willing to pay for it.
Owning a business to me means I own my Book of Business. That means my clients are my clients. My reps own their entire book of business also! If one of my agents decides to work with Primerica and Primerica offers better products for their clients then by all means replace or roll over the products! To me that’s ownership; or at least my definition of ownership.
104 Kevin // Nov 11, 2009 at 3:03 pm
I’m off in half-an-hour to meet with the RVP/recruiter (I guess is the correct term) that met with me yesterday afternoon. She also had me return yesterday evening for a presentation from the National Sales Director. Having been through some programs that seem eerily similar in various respects (Bernard Haldane Assoc. career counseling, Linuxgruven - an infamous IT Ponzi scheme based in St. Louis, and a small business consulting firm based in Chicago), a few alarms went off, but I was willing to keep an open mind. I’m so grateful for the information provided here mostly because it is so clearly, reasonably and rationally presented. That’s a rarity on the Internet. My experience in some of those other endeavors, where I was in the position of trying to defend the organization, got very heated, and the critics were just as trollish and started as many flame wars as the defenders. Not so here. Kudo, Ken and Mr. Ex.
I am curious about something thought. “The 2 yr no compete clause starts when you quit the company.” How can you be subject to a non-compete after the fact? That is, if you did not sign a non-compete during your employ, how can you be forced to abide by one after? I’m no attorney, but that agreement would have to be in force before you left for it to be legally binding, wouldn’t it? Good for you if your ethics wouldn’t allow you to poach former clients. My understanding is that non-competes generally aren’t enforceable anyway, but the cost of defending against one makes it easier to follow it. But, as you’ve suggested, if you own the business, you ought to own the client list too.
105 Kevin // Nov 11, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Oh, and for the record, my intent is to not hand over a dime to Primerica. I’ve already provided them, regrettably, with three non-local leads. I was asked while waiting for my “interview” for five local “references” as the company is SEC regulated and they would be required for a “background check”. As a business consultant, I was on the road five days a week, so I don’t have any local contacts. My family is all deceased, and my wife’s family isn’t local.
Also want to thank Chris for telling his story, again reasonably, rationally, and impartially, and providing this forum.
106 Kevin // Nov 12, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Follow up: After everything I’ve read here and elsewhere, I was tempted to skip the third meeting. However, the rep I’ve been dealing with was so sincere and credible, even going so far as to poo-poo what she called “the dog and pony show”, and was willing to meet me closer to home in the lobby of a nearby hotel, so I felt obligated. I warned her up front that my interest level had moved from a 6 on a scale of 1-10 to about a 2. Perhaps it’s a credit to her ability as a sales person that she understood just how to approach me and talk to me to pique my interest. At this point, if she worked for any other company, I’d probably ask, “Where do I sign.” But I just don’t feel that, based on my current understanding of how Primerica conducts business and its corporate culture, that I would be a good fit. I’m not being critical of Primerica when I say that. I believe that it’s certainly right for her. I believe that it can and has helped a number of people who perhaps had never examined their financial situation before. But until recently I worked for a company that in a similar vein purports to help small businesses, and I can no longer align myself with a company that relies so heavily on the naivete of its customers.
107 Christopher Wondra // Nov 12, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Kevin,
Very interesting, and thank you so much for your perspective and story. It’s great to get such an even handed analysis.
Chris
108 Robert // Nov 20, 2009 at 3:22 pm
After reading several comments about this issue I figured I would chime in! I work with Primerica and love it. My parents have worked with us for ten years and I have been around for about 5. We have two offices in two different states and plan on opening another one in the next year or so.
I’m not sure why Ken and EX are so avid about bashing us but i agree with some of our supporters who want to know who else out there really fights to help middle America. I am sure there are some better rates out there and othere routes that our clients could take but last time I checked not one bank, insurance company or investment firm was attempting to help customers with them. Almost all insurance companies out there sell whole life which is not good for families. Just ask any consumer advocate out there and they will tell you that you would be 100% better off buying term and investing the difference.
As for banks and investment firms they dont offer the right stuff either. Not one client I have ever sat with has had the other financial institutions offer anything even close to our solutions. So as to your suggestion that there is better out there. If there is why are the othere companies out there not offering these solutions? Why don’t you bash the banks for offering arms, interest only, or balloon payment loans, or the investment firms who don’t even want to touch the middle American market.
The one thing I do know in this world is that Primerica really does want to help and no matter what slanderous things are said about us our strong financial situation and success stories far outweigh the few negatives out there. So why don’t you guys go change the world or something and leave the finances to us! I will be praying for the two. God bless.
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